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| GeoCommunity Mailing List |
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| Subject: | RE: [gislist] GIS Data for China and Nicaragua |
| Date: |
09/12/2003 03:55:01 PM |
| From: |
Dimitri Rotow |
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> Have you tried CIESIN's China Data Holdings?
>
> http://sedac.ciesin.columbia.edu/data.html
>
Very good suggestion (God bless CIESIN for the public service they provide),
but unfortunately that data set is only 1:1-million-scale, about the same as
VMAP0, etc.
The real solution for Layne is to get the VMAP1 collection for China out of
NIMA. VMAP1 is a beautiful 1:250K-scale data set that is perfect for most
international uses.
VMAP1 is a public domain data set that NIMA is illegally keeping out of the
hands of the public. Part of it has been released, but those parts that
tread on the toes of NIMA's cartographic monopolist friends overseas have
been withheld. Of course, those are the most useful and interesting parts.
By the way, that latter bit is not a rant. I've been told by two NIMA
staffers that the agency deliberately decided to withhold parts of VMAP1 to
avoid hurting the business of the Ordnance Survey and other overseas friends
of NIMA. I was told by those NIMA staffers that they know what they are
doing is illegal but that they think they can get away with it because NIMA
has more resources to wait out anyone who doesn't like it. Sad, but true.
To see what is publicly available, use the http://geoengine.nima.mil site to
see coverages for VMAP1. As you can see, China has not been released even
though they've had that data for years.
Next, visit the drawing of coverages at
http://www.manifold.net/images/vmap_avail.png (a big image, about 450KB).
This is crude and was obtained from an image provided by a friendly NIMA
staffer and is slightly out of date as regards what has been released, but
it gives the all-important CD numbers for which CD covers which area. Use
these CD numbers to file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with
NIMA for the CDs. NIMA has a lot of bureaucratic expertise in denying FOIA
requests, but just keep plugging. Sooner or later as enough people file
FOIA requests to which NIMA responds illegally, there will be enough
evidence assembled to hang them.
For practical tips on making FOIA requests, see
http://www.epic.org/open_gov/
See also the notes at the end of
http://exchange.manifold.net/manifold/manuals/5_userman/mfd50Public_Access_t
o_Public_Data.htm for notes on interactions with NIMA. NIMA will try to get
you to drop your claim. Follow through, don't get snowed and get everything
in writing. T
What they are trying to do as a recent maneuver is to deliberately "seed" US
data with what they think can get them an exemption from FOIA (very hard to
do). But, they are being clumsy about it and are leaving a trail. For
starters, they can't "seed" public domain data in an attempt to keep it from
the public and second, this is exactly the sort of bad-faith behavior that
gets judges really torqued off when one fine day NIMA discovers that the law
applies to it as well.
I realize that most people don't want to file FOIA requests to get GIS data,
but who knows... you might get lucky and get exactly what you want for very
cool Chinese data. If you have any influence with your local Congressional
representative or Senator you might also be able to get your data that way.
Just keep at it and remember that the law says you have a right to VMAP1.
Cheers,
Dimitri
> hey List:
>
> Does anyone know where I can get large scale data for these two countries.
> I have looked at the ESRI Data disks, Geo Community and the Geography
> Network and can find small scale stuff.
>
> I'm also interested in bathymetric data for the lakes in Nicaragua.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
>
> Mr. Layne Seely
> GIS Analyst
> CHIANG, PATEL & YERBY, INC.
> 1820 Regal Row, Suite 200
> Dallas, Texas 75235
> 214.640.1736 (Direct)
> 214.638.3723 (Fax)
> LSeely@cpyi.com
>
>
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