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| GeoCommunity Mailing List |
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| Subject: | RE: [gislist] GIS Certification? |
| Date: |
06/10/2004 10:40:01 AM |
| From: |
Scott Grams |
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Bob,
I wasn't looking for a debate. We have too many applications on hand to
spend time engaged in one of those. I thought it would be helpful for
Anthony to review the GISCI program, and what it looks to certify, before it
is condemned.
Regards,
Scott Grams
GISCI Certification Manager
-----Original Message-----
From: gislist-bounces@lists.geocomm.com
[mailto:gislist-bounces@lists.geocomm.com]On Behalf Of J Bee
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:29 AM
To: gislist@lists.thinkburst.com
Subject: RE: [gislist] GIS Certification?
Scott,
You completely missed Anthony's main point - the meat of his message:
"This whole certification initiative is a SOLUTION
looking for a PROBLEM. Really now, what was the original impetus for
starting this effort waaaay back when ? How on earth did the GIS industry
ever make it this far WITHOUT "certified" professionals ?"
The fact that you only responded to his question of how tests are taken
merely shows the weakmess and complete insanity of a GIS Certificate. I -
like many others, don't have one, won't get one, and don't need one.
Oh sure, hanging another certicifcate on your wall and smoking a pipe while
talking about your GIS certificate school days (while also rubbing your
balding head) probably sounds grandor, but please, give me a break! This
field is changing so fast that a certificate means n-o-t-h-i-n-g. I have
taken on college interns and watched them turn into excellent GIS
professionsals, and guess what - no certification! What a scam, what a
fallacy, and what a bureaucratic false sense of security. Sounds like some
GISers have this low self esteem about themselves, and maybe some little
paper certificate makes them feel good all over. Please.
Bob, PPC (PowerPoint Certified)
Scott Grams <sgrams@urisa.org> wrote:
Anthony,
The former CEO of Kinkos would be proud. The GISCI Certification program is
not examination based. It does not favor good test takers who memorize
facts. It is a portfolio based system that looks at an individuals
educational achievement, professional experience, and contributions back to
the profession. Please visit www.gisci.org for more information.
Regards,
Scott Grams
GISCI Certification Manager
-----Original Message-----
From: gislist-bounces@lists.geocomm.com
[mailto:gislist-bounces@lists.geocomm.com]On Behalf Of Anthony
Quartararo
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:02 AM
To: gislist@lists.thinkburst.com
Subject: RE: [gislist] GIS Certification?
I've made my opinion known on this subject in the past. I really hate to
say "I told you so...". This whole certification initiative is a SOLUTION
looking for a PROBLEM. Really now, what was the original impetus for
starting this effort waaaay back when ? How on earth did the GIS industry
ever make it this far WITHOUT "certified" professionals ? One sure way to
stifle innovation, creativity and entrepreneurial endeavors is to suffocate
would-be professionals with certification requirements mandated by
Governments without full consideration for the intended/unintended
consequences. Again, I draw the analogy that many in the GIS industry would
be all-to-familiar with: an ISO-9000 certified/registered company that
still manages to delivery crap. How can this be? This company would have
had to put in place a quality management system, documentation, internal
audits, training, continuous improvement campaigns, endure annual external
audits and re-certification audits, and after all that jazz, still churn out
crap.....all the while, using the ubiquitous and overblown "ISO certified"
logo on marketing materials and blasting everyone within earshot that they
have an ISO system in place. Does this sound familiar to you ?
Well, back to the certification initiative. Remember those people in school
who were great test takers? Multiple choice, True or False? Interesting
interview with the founder and former CEO of Kinkos the other day on the
news, said his father came home one night and found him doing homework late
at night, and asked what he was doing, "memorizing" the answers was the
reply. His father made him go to sleep and told him in the morning to never
do that again, "go to school to learn, not to memorize" was the message.
The relevance being, and admittedly I have not seen a certificate "test" or
exam, but no doubt it is a series of questions that are intended to gauge
whether or not the test-taker knows the answer to the question. NOT whether
the test-taker understands the concepts, the foundations and the real-world
application that the questions were no doubt intended to elicit. Passing a
really hard test does not correspond to how well you have mastered the
subject, it just demonstrates how hard you studied. The ultimate test in 10
years time will be to revisit all those people who insisted, in fact,
mandated a certification for this or that position, etc.
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