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| Subject: | Fw: [gislist] RE: GIS education/degree |
| Date: |
02/12/2005 09:35:01 AM |
| From: |
Chip Westbrook |
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This argument was started at the end of world war two, it has now reached
its full potential, it is called a paper ceiling. The question "why do we in
the U S ship jobs overseas?". The answer is rooted in this argument. It will
be interesting to see the conclusion,
chip
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephany Filimon" <stephany@imagetext.net>
To: <gislist@lists.thinkburst.com>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [gislist] RE: GIS education/degree
>I believe this is why the www.gisci.org certification was developed with
>both students and working professionals in mind. Their entire system for
>getting GIS certification acknowledges that many people, especially those
>who began working with GIS before academic programs were devoted to the
>subject, "learned by doing' in the work force and awards certification
>credit for it.
>
> Just tossing that in - don't have the time to write a decent post on the
> rest of this debate right this instant.
>
> Vikki Avara-Snider wrote:
>
>>Barb is right, and I for one thank her for the intestinal fortitude to
>>say it publicly.
>>
>>Unfortunately there are too many "managers" out there who perpetuate
>>the myth that a person with a degree necessarily knows more than someone
>>who is self taught (or even had some good pre-requisite classes) and
>>has been working in the field for awhile. Beyond that it's just not
>>necessarily true that to be a competent GIS professional you need to go
>>through all the hoops that getting a four year degree requires. 99% of
>>what we really learn in GIS is from on the job training.
>>Many JCs offer certificates in GIS, and are taught by professionals in
>>the field who know exactly what a person will need on the job. Class
>>materials specificly address what a person needs to know in a working
>>situation. And yes, people right out of high school do cut it in these
>>programs. The reason for this is that so many high schools are teaching
>>the fundamentals of GIS as part of their regular curriculum. It's not
>>rocket science.
>>"Reputable" organizations would do well to look beyond the piece of
>>paper and its accompanying GPA and look at the applicants work history
>>and demonstrated ability to accomplish specific tasks. It is arrongance
>>and laziness on the part of hiring managers that consideration of a job
>>candidate only begins after establishing that there is a degree.
>>Obviously, all the above depends on having graduated High School being
>>able to rub a few brain cells together.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>spatialgis@yahoo.ca 02/11/05 11:00:46 AM >>>
>>>>>
>>Wow Barb.. pretty bold statement. Sure people with no post-secondary ed
>>can obviously "learn GIS" although I challenge most of them to advance
>>much further than a position as a digitizing slave or intern who tops
>>out at about $10 per hour. The fact is that unless a candidate has the
>>fundamentals typically obtained by any bachelor's of science degree (ie.
>>statistics, algebra, trig, principles of cartography, air photo
>>interpretation, fundamentals of remote sensing etc...) then they simply
>>will likely not cut it as an industry professional with a reputable
>>organization. Naturally there are many very skilled GIS professionals who
>>likely have
>>no further ed than a high school diploma but in general, most managers
>>won't look at a person without a BSc or at the least a technical
>>diploma. To imply anything else is simply off target. Judging by your
>>email address I assume you are involved in k-12 ed... I would have
>>thought that you'd have a bit more insight than what your message
>>indicates.
>> FYI, there are 2 year technology diplomas available but most of them do
>>require a degree to enter.. People right out of high school would likely
>>never cut it in these programs.
>>
>>
>>Barb Wallner <wallnebj@mail.milwaukee.k12.wi.us> wrote:
>>I'm sure there are enough people on this listserv who are working in
>>some
>>compacity in GIS without a university degree, and who do not have the
>>time
>>or
>>the money to pursue a 4-year degree to move into the graduate program
>>were
>>it seems that universities like to offer it. I'm sure there are 2
>>reasons
>>for this. The "official" reason is to have students who already have a
>>discipline "on paper". The "unofficial" reason is that GIS can be
>>learned
>>without a 4-year degree but universities n
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